CW Crisis on Infinite Earths

With upfront coming next week and along with it the inevitable CoIE questions I thought I’d bring this thread back up. Personally I didn’t really like Elseworlds and am not particularly looking forward to CoIE. My feeling is I want it over with already so we can move on. I fear that CoIE will overshadow talks about each individual show at SDCC.

I humbly request that forum discussion about CoIE happen in this thread rather than in a more general discussion thread. I realize there will be some spillover. There was a separate thread for Elseworlds and that worked out well IMO.

Those who want to talk about CoIE have a clear place to do so and those who aren’t looking forward to it and/or want to limit spoilers can simply ignore it. This seems fair to everyone.

With upfront coming next week and along with it the inevitable CoIE questions I thought I’d bring this thread back up. Personally I didn’t really like Elseworlds and am not particularly looking forward to CoIE. My feeling is I want it over with already so we can move on. I fear that CoIE will overshadow talks about each individual show at SDCC.

I humbly request that forum discussion about CoIE happen in this thread rather than in a more general discussion thread. I realize there will be some spillover particularly for the finale. I believe this is fair to everyone. Those who want to talk about CoIE have a clear place to do so and those who aren’t looking forward to it and/or want to limit spoilers can simply ignore it.

Hopefully the new SG writer will fight for more respect of SG. However, be ready because this is Arrow's Swan Song, so be ready for it to be the Arrow show much like its 10 episode a few years back during the crosdover....characters from way back will get their time as well....SOOOOO SG will get the shaft again.

With upfront coming next week and along with it the inevitable CoIE questions I thought I’d bring this thread back up. Personally I didn’t really like Elseworlds and am not particularly looking forward to CoIE. My feeling is I want it over with already so we can move on. I fear that CoIE will overshadow talks about each individual show at SDCC.

I humbly request that forum discussion about CoIE happen in this thread rather than in a more general discussion thread. I realize there will be some spillover particularly for the finale. I believe this is fair to everyone. Those who want to talk about CoIE have a clear place to do so and those who aren’t looking forward to it and/or want to limit spoilers can simply ignore it.

Hopefully the new SG writer will fight for more respect of SG. However, be ready because this is Arrow's Swan Song, so be ready for it to be the Arrow show much like its 10 episode a few years back during the crosdover....characters from way back will get their time as well....SOOOOO SG will get the shaft again.

Yeah. It can't really be denied that Supergirl always gets shafted in the crossovers. I'm hoping she gets more focus, considering how she was one of the key players in the comic iteration of CoIE.

The REALLY sad part, though? Despite how small her role was in Elseworlds, I feel like we got more Supergirl in that than we did in a handful of her own episodes in season 4...

Off topic, but once Batwoman is up and running, I'd love some solo crossovers between her and Supergirl.

I dont think she got shafted in the 2017 crossover, she was the central figure in that...I think she was totally left out of the Elseworld crossover....bringing in Superman was a ratings grab that did nothing to up the ratings, it just ticked off Supergirl fans because there was no need for him to be there other than for ratings. You already had a Super there.....use her.

I dont think she got shafted in the 2017 crossover, she was the central figure in that...I think she was totally left out of the Elseworld crossover....bringing in Superman was a ratings grab that did nothing to up the ratings, it just ticked off Supergirl fans because there was no need for him to be there other than for ratings. You already had a Super there.....use her.

Well it did get him off world and for the most part stop the why doesn't she call her cousin nonsense. The last scene with him proposing was completely unnecessary. I'm waiting for the outrage if he isn't in CoIE. I do like Tyler's interpretation nothing at all against him but the character should have a very limited presence on her show.

I also think Crisis on Earth-X has been the best of the crossovers. It had a good balance and was very much like one continuous miniseries rather than four separate shows, they shouldn't have abandoned that concept. It flowed so much better because they weren't nearly as concerned with highlighting certain characters during a particular hour. Heck neither the aborted wedding ceremony nor the actual "I Do's" took place on Flash or Arrow.

I do agree that Crisis on Earth X was the best crossover, and that Supergirl had a larger role in it, than the other two crossovers. However, we still got more action with Flash and Arrow, as they were attempting to escape Earth X. I guess my issue is that they always seem to find a reason to take Supergirl off the board.

In "Invasion", Green Arrow benched her.
In "Crisis on Earth X", she was captured and strapped to a medical bed for an episode and a half.
In "Elseworlds", she came into the plot later than Arrow and Flash, and was placed in a cell for the bulk of the 3rd episode.

In a sense, I get it. She's seemingly the most overpowered character, so they take her off the board to make the odds against the heroes seem more realistic. But in Elseworlds, that was unnecessary. Along the lines with what Brierrose said, they could have used Supergirl, more, in place of Superman. His role in part 1 was fun. And you could have still had "Evil Superman" in part 3. But I would have rather had Supergirl vs Evil Superman instead of Superman vs Evil Superman.

That said, I hope Superman is in CoIE, just due to the source material. But I definitely want Supergirl to get the focus she deserves.

I think Kara's benching in Invasion was mainly due to Marc Guggenheim, who wanted Arrow's 100th episode to be a celebration of Arrow. I can't blame him, to be honest, but it did make for a very uneven series. I did find it interesting that Flash's 100th episode (which did NOT fall during the crossover) wasn't nearly as much a celebration of that show as Arrow's was.

Crisis on Earth-X was the only one they've done so far that was really "let's take everyone and make a movie." Plus, they had Victor Garber's departure from the show as part of it, and Stein's death scene was magnificently well done. Yes, they nerfed Supergirl by strapping her to that table, but Melissa was also pulling double-duty and Overgirl was, in my memory, a much bigger part of that show than evil Ollie was.

Elseworlds, I think they decided they can't physically or logistically do a CoEX level event every year, so they simplified a bit. CoIE, on the other hand, I actually think deserves more than 4 or 5 episodes (if they fold in Black Lightning, and who doesn't want to see the Pierce family lined up with everyone else?) if they do it right. To be honest, my biggest question right now is, what's the Anti-Monitor going to look like? (Sorry, Marv Wolfman, that's the worst throwaway villain name ever.) And will they manage to work in a cameo by David Mazouz and Camren Bicondova, sitting in a cafe in Florence?

Emily is doing a Broadway play right now, so maybe that was it?

I really thought that was weird as well. If it was $$$ I highly doubt she is making in the play what she was making per episode. But, I really have no clue on those things, just don't see that happening. So her wanting more $$$ possibly for the final 10 eps and them not agreeing probably isn't a reason. Maybe the play is going longer than the 10 episodes? but even then, Plays in New York are an iffy business at best as far as longevity.

Just really, really weird on her part.

Hmmm... Just finished rewatching Elseworlds. And now, I'm not really convinced Oliver is going to die, nor am I really convinced he actually traded his life for Kara and Barry's.

Right after the scene with the Monitor asking Oliver what did Oliver propose as a trade to keep the balance, immediately we are transported to the scene of Degal (spelling??) with the book re-rewriting everything, fighting off our super crew, eventually with Oliver arriving back on the scene. He pulls an arrow out. Note the tip--it's shimmering with a blue light. And, when said arrow strikes the book and it drops to the ground, not only does light stop coming from the pages, the pages actually appear to die and decay--becoming brown and brittle looking. Seems to me, Oliver asking to destroy (take the life from) the book, rather than asking the Monitor to give the book to him, is a fair trade, a great "balance" to offset changing Kara and Barry's destiny. In fact, by destroying the book, everything on Earth 1 returns back to normal--balance restored.

Also... just thought of this...trading his ONE life doesn't offset saving Kara AND Barry's TWO lives. The death of such a powerful book seems more like it.

And finally, one of the last things we see is Barry and Oliver at the bar. Barry tries to tell Oliver that Oliver's a good man, to which Barry replies, "I'm not as good as you think I am, but because of you, I think I'll get there someday." Doesn't sound like a man who thinks he's going to die anytime soon. I know he later proposes a toast that they appreciate what they have *pause* "however long you may have it"....but I can't help but feel perhaps the writers threw that in there as a red herring. lol

Hmmmmm. Can't wait for season 5 and the crossover.

Really looking forward to season five, still not excited for the crossover. They seem to be throwing everyone and the kitchen sink into an already full cast. Most importantly I don't want my shows blown up for the sake of Arrow's sendoff. As to weather Oliver will die, your post reminded me of something I read when I did some surface level reading on CoIE. I remembered reading about characters that survived but didn't remain on Earth and after some searching was able to find it. In the comics Superboy-Prime joins Alexander Luthor, Jr., Kal-L, and his wife Lois Lane in a "paradise dimension". Maybe in this version that's where Oliver goes. Oliver wanted to change Kara and Barry's destinies as written in that book so he asked for a way to destroy the book. The Monitor could've been intrigued/impressed that Oliver didn't want the book's powers for himself. The Monitor gave Oliver a chance to change his friends destinies but at the expense of his own. The deal was in exchange for the arrow that could destroy the book the Monitor said if Oliver survives the coming Crisis he can't stay on Earth. Oliver agreed to that but added that Felicity would be given a choice to join him in the "paradise dimension". That would explain the scene we saw with Felicity and the Monitor, she stayed on Earth for her daughter but once Mia was grown she went to join Oliver. Side note I still don't get why Emily Bett Rickards decided to leave with 10 episodes left.

I don't want Supergirl's 100th episode anywhere, in anyway near the crossover. Already far too many characters in the crossover. I want her 100th all Supergirl

Could not agree more!! With the 100th being episode 13 and the crossover likely episode 9 it should be far enough away. I'm thinking episode 13 will air 3/1/2020.

Amell has said he may not die in Crisis....so who knows.

Maybe he traded his future, not his life

Hmmm... Just finished rewatching Elseworlds. And now, I'm not really convinced Oliver is going to die, nor am I really convinced he actually traded his life for Kara and Barry's.

Right after the scene with the Monitor asking Oliver what did Oliver propose as a trade to keep the balance, immediately we are transported to the scene of Degal (spelling??) with the book re-rewriting everything, fighting off our super crew, eventually with Oliver arriving back on the scene. He pulls an arrow out. Note the tip--it's shimmering with a blue light. And, when said arrow strikes the book and it drops to the ground, not only does light stop coming from the pages, the pages actually appear to die and decay--becoming brown and brittle looking. Seems to me, Oliver asking to destroy (take the life from) the book, rather than asking the Monitor to give the book to him, is a fair trade, a great "balance" to offset changing Kara and Barry's destiny. In fact, by destroying the book, everything on Earth 1 returns back to normal--balance restored.

Also... just thought of this...trading his ONE life doesn't offset saving Kara AND Barry's TWO lives. The death of such a powerful book seems more like it.

And finally, one of the last things we see is Barry and Oliver at the bar. Barry tries to tell Oliver that Oliver's a good man, to which Barry replies, "I'm not as good as you think I am, but because of you, I think I'll get there someday." Doesn't sound like a man who thinks he's going to die anytime soon. I know he later proposes a toast that they appreciate what they have *pause* "however long you may have it"....but I can't help but feel perhaps the writers threw that in there as a red herring. lol

Hmmmmm. Can't wait for season 5 and the crossover.

Yes, the possibility of the audience going for the obvious interpretation and the writers serving up something else entirely is a distinct possibility.

The 2040 timeline as presented last season in Arrow indicates that the world thinks Oliver is dead, but they played it pretty cagily. Rather annoyingly so.

Hmmm... Just finished rewatching Elseworlds. And now, I'm not really convinced Oliver is going to die, nor am I really convinced he actually traded his life for Kara and Barry's.

Right after the scene with the Monitor asking Oliver what did Oliver propose as a trade to keep the balance, immediately we are transported to the scene of Degal (spelling??) with the book re-rewriting everything, fighting off our super crew, eventually with Oliver arriving back on the scene. He pulls an arrow out. Note the tip--it's shimmering with a blue light. And, when said arrow strikes the book and it drops to the ground, not only does light stop coming from the pages, the pages actually appear to die and decay--becoming brown and brittle looking. Seems to me, Oliver asking to destroy (take the life from) the book, rather than asking the Monitor to give the book to him, is a fair trade, a great "balance" to offset changing Kara and Barry's destiny. In fact, by destroying the book, everything on Earth 1 returns back to normal--balance restored.

Also... just thought of this...trading his ONE life doesn't offset saving Kara AND Barry's TWO lives. The death of such a powerful book seems more like it.

And finally, one of the last things we see is Barry and Oliver at the bar. Barry tries to tell Oliver that Oliver's a good man, to which Barry replies, "I'm not as good as you think I am, but because of you, I think I'll get there someday." Doesn't sound like a man who thinks he's going to die anytime soon. I know he later proposes a toast that they appreciate what they have *pause* "however long you may have it"....but I can't help but feel perhaps the writers threw that in there as a red herring. lol

Hmmmmm. Can't wait for season 5 and the crossover.

Looks to be the biggest crossover yet.

Looks to be the biggest crossover yet.

The attached article from Variety confirms 3 episodes in late 2019 (December) and 2 episodes in early 2020 (January). I assume LoT's Season 5 premiere will be one of the January episodes but which show will be the other?. Will it be Arrow's series finale?.

Some artwork was released at The CW's upfront presentation and it's pretty cool they have Supergirl flying .

It's worth noting that this is a mash up of existing promotional materials. With flash likely getting a new costume next season, Batwoman updates and Melissa's new hair cut, a real Crisis image will be made. I think they just needed something for today's presentation.

I agree with Argo about the change in writers, which was why I'm excited they brought in Jay Faerber.

Oliver, Barry, and Kara are the TV trinity and I can see them and Superman taking the leadership role during the Crisis.

I agree with Argo about the change in writers, which was why I'm excited they brought in Jay Faerber.

Oliver, Barry, and Kara are the TV trinity and I can see them and Superman taking the leadership role during the Crisis.

I dont see the need for Superman, anymore than I saw the need in the last crossover. You have a Super.....use her this time around.

I agree with Argo about the change in writers, which was why I'm excited they brought in Jay Faerber.

Oliver, Barry, and Kara are the TV trinity and I can see them and Superman taking the leadership role during the Crisis.

I dont see the need for Superman, anymore than I saw the need in the last crossover. You have a Super.....use her this time around.

Normally, I'd agree with you, because I love the emphasis on Supergirl. But Superman and Supergirl are both absolutely crucial to this story, even in the comics. I think Superman needs to be involved. That's not to say they should backburner Supergirl for it. But it's a multiverse ending threat. He needs to be there. As a fan of the source material this story is based on, Superman NEEDS to be there, alongside Supergirl and The Flash.

Crisis on Infinite Earths will only be made into a live action story ONCE. In our lifetime, at least. As such, I want him included because I want it to be as faithful as can be.

I agree with Argo about the change in writers, which was why I'm excited they brought in Jay Faerber.

Oliver, Barry, and Kara are the TV trinity and I can see them and Superman taking the leadership role during the Crisis.

I dont see the need for Superman, anymore than I saw the need in the last crossover. You have a Super.....use her this time around.

Normally, I'd agree with you, because I love the emphasis on Supergirl. But Superman and Supergirl are both absolutely crucial to this story, even in the comics. I think Superman needs to be involved. That's not to say they should backburner Supergirl for it. But it's a multiverse ending threat. He needs to be there. As a fan of the source material this story is based on, Superman NEEDS to be there, alongside Supergirl and The Flash.

Crisis on Infinite Earths will only be made into a live action story ONCE. In our lifetime, at least. As such, I want him included because I want it to be as faithful as can be.

If I believed the writers will do a better job of not sidelining SG and using SM instead? I would be all for it....I do not believe that will happen.

I think the Faustian bargain Oliver made with the Monitor will be the major impact for CoIE. IMHO, despite the comics, it will not be Supergirl and the Flash. Returned from the dead will be complicated in these shows, unless they are different Karas and Barrys. I really believe Oliver’s deal is the key to this crossover.

Argo

Yep.......Arrow is going to out in a blaze of glory.

I agree with Argo about the change in writers, which was why I'm excited they brought in Jay Faerber.

Oliver, Barry, and Kara are the TV trinity and I can see them and Superman taking the leadership role during the Crisis.

I dont see the need for Superman, anymore than I saw the need in the last crossover. You have a Super.....use her this time around.

Normally, I'd agree with you, because I love the emphasis on Supergirl. But Superman and Supergirl are both absolutely crucial to this story, even in the comics. I think Superman needs to be involved. That's not to say they should backburner Supergirl for it. But it's a multiverse ending threat. He needs to be there. As a fan of the source material this story is based on, Superman NEEDS to be there, alongside Supergirl and The Flash.

Crisis on Infinite Earths will only be made into a live action story ONCE. In our lifetime, at least. As such, I want him included because I want it to be as faithful as can be.

If I believed the writers will do a better job of not sidelining SG and using SM instead? I would be all for it....I do not believe that will happen.

In fairness...Supergirl getting sidelined wasn't just a problem in Elseworlds. It was a problem, this season, overall, as we've both discussed, several times, in the main threads regarding this season. But yes. I think they could have easily have had Supergirl fighting Dark Superman. Would have been easier to shoot, as well, as you wouldn't have needed Tyler in the dual role for as much time. Then, they could have had Superman come in at the very end, to help in a reduced role, just as Brainy, J'onn, and Lois did.