CW Crisis on Infinite Earths

Part of the reason Crisis on Infinite Earths carries so much weight is BECAUSE of the deaths of both Barry Allen and Kara Zor-El. For this reason...I feel those events need to happen. There are certain story beats that NEED to take place. And seeing those deaths will carry an incredible emotional impact.

I think the writers laid their cards on the table to a degree. It was written in the Book of Destiny that Barry and Kara would have to die. But Oliver objected to that. The Monitor asked what he thought should be done instead. Earlier, Superman had said rewriting destiny comes with a price. I think they might be telegraphing a different resolution.

Perhaps. But that only spared them from THIS event, because even Oliver knew they were the best bet for surviving the oncoming Crisis.

Like I said, I don't think their deaths will be permanent. But I think they should happen.

They'll probably do something SUPER dumb, like have Earth 90 Barry be the one to sacrifice himself in place of our Barry, and have Superman sacrifice himself instead of Kara.

But to me, those two moves are entirely too predictable. It's like their bringing back these 2 characters, just to serve as a plot device and spare the 2 "destined to die" characters. And by doing this, they completely neglect the event's impact. The tagline is "The Universe will never be the same". But by introducing secondary characters just to die in place of your longstanding characters, nothing really changes at all, and the "Crisis" loses it's impact.

It's all speculation, at this point. But as I said, I'm hoping we get the death scenes for Barry and Kara, and then they are revived in the reboot...perhaps at someone else's expense.

Part of the reason Crisis on Infinite Earths carries so much weight is BECAUSE of the deaths of both Barry Allen and Kara Zor-El. For this reason...I feel those events need to happen. There are certain story beats that NEED to take place. And seeing those deaths will carry an incredible emotional impact.

I think the writers laid their cards on the table to a degree. It was written in the Book of Destiny that Barry and Kara would have to die. But Oliver objected to that. The Monitor asked what he thought should be done instead. Earlier, Superman had said rewriting destiny comes with a price. I think they might be telegraphing a different resolution.

Exactly, since when has this TV universe always stuck to the comics. I think Oliver traded his life for Kara and Barry’s. The scene with Oliver and Barry in the bar makes me think Oliver knows he doesn’t have long to live. Real life stuff now, Arrow is in its seventh season and Stephen has made noises about wanting to spend more time with his family. Leads contracts are for seven years right, Stephen may have agreed to stick around so Oliver can go out with a bang. The network has to make space for the presumed Batwoman show.

I rarely jump in but I have some thoughts actually. We've all hinted that the deal Oliver made now makes him a candidate. Additionally, we know that in the comics, Supergirl and The Flash are also fair game with the iconic image of Superman holding Supergirl after her death.

I think, for those that watch The Flash, that the crisis event in the future newspaper, will have a date change coming soon due to something Barry's daughter will cause. This puts his disappearance front and center for next year. Additionally, Kara sacrificing herself for family is very real, maybe it's actually Alex and her son or daughter not Superman but that was also put into motion at the end of Elseworlds.

Basically, I think the writers will maneuver the three main cast members in a way that makes their deaths all very possible. That said, I think Supergirl should be the one to "die" because as we've seen already, the show has no issues with adapting Superman stories for their own purposes. We could have a second half of Supergirl where we explore the world without Supergirl, Supergirl's doppelgangers, and finally the return of Supergirl, all of which could be done in a few episodes as not to limit Melissa's screen time.

Side note, This has never happened to me before but running both Batwoman and Supergirl.tv these last few days has actually made my hands sore from typing. OUCH

I rarely jump in but I have some thoughts actually. We've all hinted that the deal Oliver made now makes him a candidate. Additionally, we know that in the comics, Supergirl and The Flash are also fair game with the iconic image of Superman holding Supergirl after her death.

I think, for those that watch The Flash, that the crisis event in the future newspaper, will have a date change coming soon due to something Barry's daughter will cause. This puts his disappearance front and center for next year. Additionally, Kara sacrificing herself for family is very real, maybe it's actually Alex and her son or daughter not Superman but that was also put into motion at the end of Elseworlds.

Basically, I think the writers will maneuver the three main cast members in a way that makes their deaths all very possible. That said, I think Supergirl should be the one to "die" because as we've seen already, the show has no issues with adapting Superman stories for their own purposes. We could have a second half of Supergirl where we explore the world without Supergirl, Supergirl's doppelgangers, and finally the return of Supergirl, all of which could be done in a few episodes as not to limit Melissa's screen time.

Side note, This has never happened to me before but running both Batwoman and Supergirl.tv these last few days has actually made my hands sore from typing. OUCH

I was gonna keep the theory to myself, but you pretty much expressed what I've been thinking.

I could see Supergirl being the one to die in the crossover (presumably episode 8 or 9). We explore the world without her, for a few episodes. Then, episode 13 (which is also the series' 100th episode), we see her return.

I have to admit that as a fan of both Supergirl and The Flash, I am actually not a fan of this idea at all. I dont want to sound like a drama queen but we all know what happens in the Crisis... comic book storyline. Tell me why should I watch either one if they are just going to kill off both Supergirl and Barry Allen. I have to admit I am worried. Then I have to ask myself how can there be a Supergirl or Flash series if they kill off the leads, especially if this event happens in the middle of the season as it usually does. Oh I know they can somehow make the Russian Supergirl the new Supergirl after our Supergirl dies and hand the lead to another one of the men who has been known as the Flash. All I have to say is I feel like stopping watching these shows right now just because I don't like knowing they might die as they did in the comic book. Now I would be okay with it if I knew for sure it wouldnt stick. THEY BETTER NOT KILL EITHER OF THESE CHARACTERS FOR KEEPS.

I'm not a comic book connoisseur but, even I know of Crisis on Earth and what that means for Supergirl. By no means do I want a permanent death of our girl but, I also don't want to see someone else, like Oliver, step in and be the true hero, sacrificing himself not only for the common good but, for Kara and Barry. A sacrifice like that is the ultimate sacrifice and historically put Kara up there in status, above other superheroes because of it. And I don't want that taken away from her.

I'm not really that concerned about what Kara's "death" would mean for the show because I think they could easily find a fix for it. I wouldn't want half of a season without Kara but, I also don't think they could put a fix in immediately and not have it lose some of its impact. So, what that looks like, I don't know - they have a year to figure it out though. One other thing, if indeed Kara is one of those who dies, it best happen in the Supergirl hour and we better get more than a couple of minutes of the impact on Kara's family, friends and National City.

A possible theory might be that this season ends with Kara converting the Red Daughter Supergirl into a good guy and maybe it is she that sacrifices - which would lose a bit of the impact but, would solve two problems - a second SG and how to sacrifice Kara. Or, maybe our Kara sacrifices and dies temporarily while the Red Daughter takes over for her for a bit until she returns?

I think the writers laid their cards on the table to a degree. It was written in the Book of Destiny that Barry and Kara would have to die. But Oliver objected to that. The Monitor asked what he thought should be done instead. Earlier, Superman had said rewriting destiny comes with a price. I think they might be telegraphing a different resolution.

Perhaps. But that only spared them from THIS event, because even Oliver knew they were the best bet for surviving the oncoming Crisis.

Like I said, I don't think their deaths will be permanent. But I think they should happen.

In story, you are correct; it saved them from dying in the Elseworlds event. However, on a "meta" level, I think it might be a metaphor--to wit: It is written in the Book of Destiny (i.e., the original Crisis comic book) that Barry and Oliver will die. BUT Oliver cut a deal of some sort, so that need not be the case. There will still be a price--just not necessarily that one.

That is just a thought that sprang to my mind when watching. Not saying it is what will happen.

It does seem odd to me, though, to want to see the death of Kara and/or Barry to give Crisis weight, only to have it undone soon afterward. Part of the reason those deaths carried such gravitas was that they "stuck" for around 20 years--an eternity in comic book terms. I might well call foul if they cheapened it in such a way.

As for Flashpoint, I agree it was massive disappointment, but not because they were missing any iconic moments. It was because they did far too little with the premise.

I guess the best way to put it is that I'm leaving room for the writers to come up with their own iconic moments, whatever they turn out to be. Gonna be a looong wait for next fall, though...

My two cents for whatever it is worth:

1) Supergirl really should not die in CoIE because it has been done in the comics (and it was a result of internal politics at DC in the 1980s - i.e. the flop that the 1984 film was hastened SG's exit from the DC universe at the time - she was brought back in the 1990s) and would be too much of a stab in the back to the fans to see it happen. Ditto for the Flash. The characters are too popular to simply knock off and bring back later. It might have worked in print, but it really would be a horrid thing to do in a live-action setting.

2) As other have pointed out, it is quite possible that Oliver Queen and someone else (they need at least two deaths to even the count out) may take the fall as a substitution for SG and the Flash.

3) The fact that the PTB and the writers are going to attempt to retell CoIE is significant. Since so many characters and so many worlds (Earths) are involved, it will be a monumental feat to see if they can reign it in over 3, 4 or 5 nights and over a variety of shows (since all shows will likely be involved). This involves introducing a lot of new characters in quick succession across all shows in order to make it viable. And, as we all know the old expression: "Too many cooks..."

4) Logistically this could be a huge nightmare to pull of on the small screen. We've seen how mixed and uneven the DC Justice League films have been and the MCU's Avengers series and recent Infinity Wars is a hit-or-miss masterpiece or piece of work, depending on your point of view. CoIE could easily consume an entire season across all affected shows in order for it to be properly told.

5) Doing CoIE opens up a huge can of whoop a## because CoIE was followed by follow-up (post) Crises series in the comic realm. The PTB would be opening up a possible Pandora's Box and may feel compelled to try to tackle the follow-ups as well. Budgets, time constraints, FX and logistics will be monumental in pulling it off.

In truth, I'm hoping that based on the tidbits revealed in the SG Elseworlds portion of the 3-night run, that both Supergirl and the Flash stay alive based on the apparent deal with the devil that Oliver Queen made with the Monitor. Oliver may be the first of the characters to be knocked off but he will not be the only one. (Since the devil doesn't keep his promises)

Something you said, Sully, got me thinking of another possibility....

Red Daughter came from splitting Kara. Perhaps, killing one unites them--somewhat along the lines of Reign absorbing the other World Killers.

But, whatever happens if she does die, we saw what happens in Justice League.

Should it be Oliver who dies, he'll have to be brought back--even IF it was Arrow's final season--simply because a dead Oliver would leave half a season left of Arrow without its star. That doesn't work, either. So really? I hope it's still Kara who dies a martyr, then be brought back an episode later after they let it all sink in.

Not trying to be contrarian. I just want to explain WHY I want to see these iconic scenes happen, and why they can still be incredibly impactful.

Never thought you were being contrarian, just passionate. Totally cool.

Something you said, Sully, got me thinking of another possibility....

Red Daughter came from splitting Kara. Perhaps, killing one unites them--somewhat along the lines of Reign absorbing the other World Killers.

But, whatever happens if she does die, we saw what happens in Justice League.

Should it be Oliver who dies, he'll have to be brought back--even IF it was Arrow's final season--simply because a dead Oliver would leave half a season left of Arrow without its star. That doesn't work, either. So really? I hope it's still Kara who dies a martyr, then be brought back an episode later after they let it all sink in.

True, it's entirely possible for Kara to die and come back. I'm not a person who thinks the shows need to mirror the comics so I'm ok with that or her not dying. I do think it's important to see her, as she did last night, go on what she thinks is a suicide mission to save the world. I have a solution to the Oliver dies and Arrow is left with half season issue. What if Arrow as a show ends in spring 2019 but Stephen and other actors from the show still appear in CoIE in fall 2019. CoIE would actually take place on the shows that would continue Supergirl, Flash, LoT, and the presumed Batwoman show but Oliver and company will have parts.

Another possibility is that the CoIE storyline will take up all shows next year starting in Autumn 2019 and, although each series will be filmed separately as stand-alone shows, they will all have threads that tie each into one-another in order to eventually merge all of the currently existing universes/timelines.

The idea that they will merge SG's Earth-38 and Earth-1 is fairly plausible given that 75% of the shows (Arrow, Flash, LoT, Black Lightning, Batwoman) operate in that reality. Although I personally prefer each show to be separate realities, the PTB and by extension, the writers, seem to have their minds set on lumping everything into one big pot. In my view, this would be a enormous gamble and may help or hinder each show.

Nonetheless, this is all speculation until the upfronts and show renewals and next autumn.

Kiwi, I love your idea of the Crossover actually STARTING the season for the Arrowverse, and your reasoning for so doing.

The Supergirl who dies might be Red Daughter.

The other solution to Red Daughter is to use one of Superman's less commonly used powers, the ability to split himself into two people, each with rather less power than the original. Folks on this list who did not watch the Superman TV show when it first came out in living black and white may not remember this power, which corresponds to his ability to dematerialize and walk ghostlike through indestructible solid walls. In any event, through force of will the two Supermen were able to reunite into one person. Supergirl could do the same.

The Supergirl who dies might be Red Daughter.

The other solution to Red Daughter is to use one of Superman's less commonly used powers, the ability to split himself into two people, each with rather less power than the original. Folks on this list who did not watch the Superman TV show when it first came out in living black and white may not remember this power, which corresponds to his ability to dematerialize and walk ghostlike through indestructible solid walls. In any event, through force of will the two Supermen were able to reunite into one person. Supergirl could do the same.

I'm a firm believer of "to each their own". But I will say that, in my opinion, the more obscure, non-comic based powers should stay forgotten. I feel the same way about Christopher Reeve Superman's ability to rebuild a wall with magic wall-rebuilding vision, or amnesia causing kisses. This seems like one of those more obscure powers.

Okay, it's been 2 full days, and I still can't stop thinking about Crisis on Infinite Earths. About what will or won't happen, about who will or wont be involved,and about which heroes may bite the big one.

GAH! It's gonna be suck a long year! Sad to say, but I already care way more about that event than any of the anti-alien storylines in Supergirl.

I still can't wait for the show to return...But it just signifies how much this announcement blew anything Supergirl or Arrow, as individual shows, had going, this year.

Going back to the deal Oliver made to save Barry and Kara in Elseworlds...

What if the deal to "keep the balance" was the expediting of how soon the Crisis would occur? Because the future news paper in "The Flash" has always indicated that it would occur in 2024. But it's now coming in 2019.

It seems the speeding up of the threat would an entirely possible trade off for keeping Barry and Kara alive through Elseworlds.

Just a thought. Naturally, it's all speculation (as this thread will mostly be until Fall of next year).

Another possibility is that the CoIE storyline will take up all shows next year starting in Autumn 2019 and, although each series will be filmed separately as stand-alone shows, they will all have threads that tie each into one-another in order to eventually merge all of the currently existing universes/timelines.

Thinking about this and Captain Past's comment in the Elseworlds Finale Recap news item "In reading the discussion here, many readers have interpreted Crisis on infiinite earths as being next year's crossover. I thought it was going to be an entire season show, meaning it could end in late Spring."


I definitely hope they don't do anything like that with the Crisis Story-line. It would take a mammoth effort between all the shows writing team's to co-ordinate everything. Each Individual show (Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl and LoT) needs to forge it's own identity and not be tied into the others. I think they have sown enough seeds to just have Crisis on Infinite Earths as a 4 episode crossover event.

I agree, Kiwi. I think that it's too big of a task to accomplish effectively. The small, three-night cross-overs that they've had with Supergirl have been very messy with plots tied too loosely together and too many characters vying for a place in the story. So, I don't have a great deal of confidence that the amount of coordination that it would take to pull off a season-long story, or even bits of it tied into the existing season of Supergirl, could be done effectively. And I also agree with you that each show needs to retain its own identity. Which is one of the reasons why, no matter what happens with the CoIE story, I hope that Supergirl's earth remains separate from the others.

Got another BTS picture for you. This time it's from the Instagram of Arrow's Rick Gonzalez. And look at who he's chilling with?



As for the woman doing the photobombing..maybe one of Rick's fellow Arrow castmates?

Okay, guys. I'm posting here because we don't have sites for Flash or Arrow. But BOTH strongly lead into Crisis, tonight.

If you are a follower of the other Arrowverse shows, Flash and Arrow, specifically...tonight's Arrow premiere was insane.